JURJENS: Yes, but by what means? Anything in the transcripts?
IVSHINA: No, it's not in the transcript.
JURJENS: Not in this transcript.
IVSHINA: No, not - not in this transcript, no.
AFP19112:
Q373. But it's in the full conversation?
А Well, yeah, yeah. But it's not from - they - they then refer to - to the neighbours.
NPN17183:
Q374. Yeah, okay. There's some things that - what they hear it from -
A From neighbours.
Q375. Heard from their neighbours.
A From neighbours, yeah.
NPN17183:
Q376. They haven't seen it by themself?
A No, they - they've seen the fighter jet.
Q377. They've seen - -
A They've seen - yeah, I ask them several times.
Q378. But how can - where - - -
A And they said - well - I said, like, how could you identify this? They said it was - it was -
Q379. High?
A It was - it was not that high to identify it sort of. And they also referred then - -
AFP19112:
Q380. So it was flying fairly low?
А Well, more or less. Yeah, yeah, more or less it was - they said it was more - it was quite visible. Yeah, yeah, and they also - and then they referred to things which they, themselves, particularly didn't see but they referred to words of their neighbours, so.
Q381. You just used the word 'fighter jet', is that the same word they used to describe the aircraft or is that your interpretation of what they said?
A Well, in Russians (foreign language spoken) is something, like, military jet.
Q382. Okay.
A (Foreign language spoken)
Q383. All right.
A I mean, they - they - they are civilians so they don't call it - like, fighter jet and they don't, you know, make - distinguish.

Q399. Did they say something about the height the plane was flying, the military jet?
A Yes. They said that it was - as they said, they said it was lower so we could see it because from - from the way they were talking - from - like, and I was asking, can I ask questions. I could understand that they didn't see, you know, the - the Boeing exactly the Boeing. They did see the parts of it falling down but they didn't see the Boeing and when - and then they said there was another jet, military jet and it was lower so we could see it. That's - that's how they said.
AFP19112:

Q400. During that conversation I think both ladies on the YouTube footage have been quite animated with their hands - - -
A Yeah, yeah.

Q401.- - describing the actions of the plane. Can you give an indication as to the area they were pointing by using your sketch? Were they pointing the direction of that aircraft in any particular area or?
A Oh.

Q402. Do you understand what I'm saying?
A Yeah, yeah, I understand.
Q403. Yeah.
A Well, overall they were, like, generally recording the movements, like, into this and that, not referring it to the geographical position.
Q404. All right. So they didn't say it was flying over there in a particular area?
A I think in the very end - when they were telling me that the jet disappeared from their vision they pointed somewhere.
Q405. Can you recall where that was? It might be easier if you can put down where you were standing on the map and where the two ladies were - and that might assist with some sort of reference point.
A -- - these were two ladies. I was, like, here.
Q406. Yeah.
A I definitely remember they were pointing somewhere but I'm afraid to be mistaken.
Q407. No, that's all right. That's okay. And I think from the YouTube footage the mother was on the right hand side there.
A This is mother.
Q408. So that's witness one and witness two there.
A Yes.
Q409. Is that correct?
A Yes, yes, that's correct. Yeah, yeah. They - they pointed somewhere here. Yeah, they - they pointed somewhere.
Q410. Because when witness one first spoke with you she didn't mention the aircraft, did she, the second aircraft?
A No, no, they both mentioned it.

Q424. But that's what - they were witness one, witness two, you, at the time?
A Oksana.
Q425. Oksana.
AFP19112:
Q426. Oksana,
NPN17201:
Q427. Oksana.
A Oksana.
Q428. And other persons?
A Yeah. So there was - I think, yes, there was a - a security advisor.
Q429. M'mm.
A Our security - but he didn't want to - he doesn't want to be named.
AFP19112:
Q430. That's all right.
NPN17201:
Q431. Okay.
A This is an advisor provided to us by BBC as a part of duty of care, so to say.
NPN17183:
Q432. Duty of care in security for US persons?
A For - for us, so people operating in the combat zone.
NPN17201:
Q433. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Other persons?
A No. No. No.
AFP19112:
Q434. Who operated the camera?
A Me.

Q435. Okay.
NPN17201:
Q436. Okay, But you are from Russia and they are from Ukraine?
A Yeah.
Q437. Were they willing to talk with you?
A Yeah.
Q438. It wasn't a problem?
A No problem.
Q439. Okay.
A And I mean - no, they were fine, they didn't ask us also.

A So several hundred metres I think.
Q453. Yeah.
A And there was no one. That's why - I - I noticed them, like, here maybe and I stopped on intention so that they come here and there would be no one. So that - it was my intention so that they won't be afraid, we won't be afraid because - -
Q454. So it's a comfortable distance.
NPN17183:
Q455. Comfortable.
A Distance without, yeah, any officials, any rebels because we were, you know - I mean, rebels have their sort of version.
Q456. Yeah.
A And we are BBC, so we - I tried to make it so that no one from rebels can hear us.
AFP19112:
Q457. You've referred to them as rebels, how do you know they were rebels? Can you describe what they were all wearing?
A I mean, first of all, the - at that moment it was firmly held by rebels.
Q458. Okay
A Like, firmly controlled and also usually on the uniform you can notice - they're even - Georgian - as we call Georgian rebel, the ribbon, the - -
Q459. Can you describe those two colours on the ribbon?
A  Orange and black.
NPN17183:
Q460. Yeah. Okay.
(Background conversation)
NPN17183:
…(indistinct)… later on maybe.
AFP19112: If you want.
NPN17183:
Or- - -
AFP19112: Okay.
(Background conversation)
NPN17201:
We can do it later.
NPN17183:
Yeah.

Q475. If you could just write down 'ribbon only' and then sign that, please. Thank you. And we'll come across those afterwards once we go through the rest.
A Okay.

NPN17183:
Q476. Sorry. Did you interview other people there on the spot that time?
A Not on this spot.
Q477. No.
A Here. Here.
Q478. The same day, the twenty-first?
A Yes. Yes. A few minutes later. As soon as we reached this - this bit.
Q479. Now, we're talking about witness number three or?
A No.
Q480. Another local?
A Another.
AFP19112:
Q481. So before you moved off after you finished that conversation here, did you go through the crash site or did you go straight up to this -
A No. When we arrived we first went here to film, filmed here.
Q482. Which is what location, please?
A This is near this green thing.
Q483. Near the wreckage.
A Near the wreckage and luggage.
Q484. And the luggage area.
A So - yeah, I filmed this one. I also filmed to direction of - -
Q485. South west?
A - south west. In the distance they were moving some wreckage with a crane. I filmed that one with a lens, using a lens. Then I filmed the body. Briefly filmed the emergency workers - because it - I think they weren't operating at that moment. It was, like, lunchtime -

Q486. Okay.
A - - or something. Then we met those two ladies. We stopped talking to them. They follow their way and then I saw some of the miners coming from the - -
Q487. The field?
A - - field.
Q488. Yeah.
A From the field. I filmed them because we needed it - and I spoke to some of them but they refused to talk on camera.

Q489. Okay.

AFP19112:
Q505. And can you recall what the object was?
A It wasn't, like, exactly. I just - he just told me, like, we find something - and you - what do they do they put it - you see how many of them when
Q506. Okay.
A This is the - the heap they put it there I said.

Q507. So possibly nothing of significance, it didn't have any person's name on or - - -
A As far as I understand, no, no, it was a significant - it was a heap of significant things, it was - -
Q508. Sorry, not the pile, the one object that that miner found. Remember the one you said to - he threw it onto the pile?
A But it's a pile of important things.
Q509. Yeah.
A Yeah, yeah.
Q510. But the individual object that he found - - - He didn't - I didn't see it.
A He - he just said he - he recently did it.
NPN17183:
Q511. He just told you.
AFP19112:
Q512. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
A So I don't know what

Q513. Just going back to that individual object, did he describe what it was?
A Don't really remember.
Q514. Okay. That's all right.
A I think it was - it was relatively important because - -

Q515. All right.
A - miner didn't pick up non-important objects. They just picked up important objects.

Q516. Okay.
A Like, passports, wallets and such.
Q517. Yeah. Sure. Thank you. Okay. So you've left that area then you've got up to this vicinity near the houses.
A Yeah.
Q518. All right. What happened there?
A Well, we - I had - I think I had some - to do some live or something and then - - -
Q519. Sorry, could you stay that again, please?

Q531. No.
A No, no, no.
Q532. Okay.
A They - those who referred to military plane said that at the time when they saw the parts of the Boeing falling somewhere near that time they saw military plane. I don't remember how many people were there but I remember that there were a few people who repeated it several times.
Q533. Okay, And do you think that they really - yeah, of course - but did they see it or are they just talking to each other and - -
A I see.

Q534. then think they saw it, is that a possibility or?
A There was - this is - there are two different versions of this report and this one here, this is, like, version number one let's call it. There is also on YouTube the - the other version and then there is another man there - another local in the white hat. And that local, he is - he also told me about
NPN17183:
Q535. He's a man.
A man. Yeah.
Q536. Because on YouTube only see women.
A There is another - -
AFP19112;
Q537. There's others.
A version.
NPN17183:
Q538. There is another version?
A Another version and then there is a man also.
AFP19112: That's this one here?
NPN17183:
Q539. That's the second version?
A Yes, exactly.
AFP19112:
Q540. The one with the sunglasses?
A Yes. Yes, yes.
NPN17183:
Q541. Yes.
AFP19112:
Q542. Yes. All right.
NPN17183:
Q543. Yeah, the - - -
A Yes, this one there. I printed it for you as well.

Q554. We are here …(indistinct)… No, let me explain to you - -
A Oh, So …(indistinct)…
Q555. Yeah. That's my - this is …(indistinct)… This is - - -
A …(indistinct)…, Grabovo.
Q556. That's Grabovo. Yes.
A It was … (indistinct)… Can I draw here?
AFP19112:
Q557. Yeah, yeah, please, on the map.
A Rovnoye. He said he was from here, Rovnoye.
Q558. Where, sorry?
NPN17183:
Q559. Rovnoye. Here.
AFP19112:
Q560. Sorry. Did you just draw on the map somewhere or?
A Yes, I did. Sorry, He let me do it (laughs).
Q561. No, that's all right.
NPN17183:
Q562. Over there, yeah. It's like a person.
A Yeah.
Q563. Okay, Difficult to see on this map. A Yeah.
AFP19112:
Q564. Okay.
A I mean, he - he said he - he - he was there. He said at the moment I was in Rovnoye.

Q565. When you spoke to this gentleman here with the cap and the sunglasses did you record that conversation?
A Yes, I did.
Q566. On video?
A Yes, I did.
Q567. All right. What was his name?
A Please ask BBC again.
Q568. Okay, So if we refer to him as witness number four.
A Okay.

Q569. Because we haven't got to witness number three yet, so we'll call him number four.
A Yes. Yeah.
NPN17183:
Q570. And what could he tell you, what - -

Q582. Yeah.
A It's hard, you know, we need, like, ten seconds or something.
AFP19112:
Q583. What reason did he give for travelling from his village to the crash site?
A What was it? Don't remember exact details. And I think it wasn't recorded but I think he just came. I mean, they were both -
Q584. Just a curiosity thing to come over and look
A. Curiosity and also - they - he paid his tribute. I think there was - at - yeah, at that day there was a priest - like, a service and many people from the neighboring villages came there.
Q585. Did you see that priest and that sermon?
A From - from, like, when we were talking - like, when we were making this way.
Q586. Yeah.
A I saw him from the distance but
Q587. Can you describe what he looked like?
A The priest. No, no, I saw him from the distance.
Q588. Okay.
A I just saw - saw this black - his, you know, he was in black - -
Q589. Okay.
A - -sort of uniform.
Q590. Yeah.
A Priest - Russian priest uniforms. And I saw him from the distance. I didn't pay much attention to him because I know that some of my colleagues were at the crash site so I thought while we can get this footage.
Q591. Okay. Just before, you indicated that town where the gentleman with the sunglasses and hat came from. On this map - the map is in Russian I believe, is it?
A Yeah.
Q592. What does that say up the top?
A Krusnahuch.
Q593. Okay. Can you write that down for me on this paper here?
A You mean - -
Q594. Is that the name of the area?
A Krusnahuch?
Q595. Yeah.
A I think it's the - one of the - Krusnahuch, I thought it's like a - not - sort of a village, like, you know, Krusnahuch. Krusnahuch. Yeah?
Q596. All right. So that's the village of - -
It's not the village, it's, like, people -
Q597. Like a region?
A A place where you - well, yeah, like, where people live, Krusnahuch.
Q598. All right.
A I mean, I'm not the - -
NPN17183:
Q599. Area or something?
A Krusnahuch. I mean, this name is familiar to me. Krusnahuch. I heard of it and I thought it's like a place where people live.
Q600. All right.
A But as far as I see from this map it includes many other - -
Q601. A number of villages.
A A number of villages, yeah.
Q602. All right. Just for the purpose of the audio I'll just refer to that as attachment F. Are you happy with that?
A Yeah, yeah. Yes, I'm - - -
Q603. And during the break I'll just ask if you could sign each of these attachments as well, please.
A Okay.
Q604. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of which.
NPN17183: Yeah.
AFP19112: Yeah. We will take a break.

Q620. - one?
A I think it was one. She made like this with her hand but I'm not sure.
AFP19112:
Q621. Like that?
A Yeah.
Q622. Okay.
NPN17183:
Q623. And that - she was meaning the military jets?
A The military jet, yeah, because she's, like - and it left and so - -
Q624. Okay.
A And again, I don't know, maybe - maybe it was, like, you know, general - like, his general movement, the way it moved or maybe it was a direction. It's hard to say but witness number three she showed it and it was also on camera. She showed it - you know, the - she consciously showed the direction she believed it moved and she named the - the direction.
Q625. Okay.
A And, yeah, and also the - I - I definitely remember that some of them - some of the people I spoke to because as - as I told, not everything was recorded because my shoulder was aching also … (laughing) … So I remember that, yeah, yeah, some people said that, you know, that military jet, it was under the clouds so we could see it. There's - I definitely remember someone said it, like, it was - it was below the clouds so we could see it.
Q626. And that's also on tape or you're not sure?
A I think - I think it - I'm not sure for all of them but I think in one of the occasions it was on tape.
AFP19112:
Q627. We might talk about witness three shortly I think because we haven't got quite there yet, have we?
NPN17183:
Q628. Yeah. Let's go further on the twenty-first of July.
A M'mm.
Q629. I think you spoke with the two ladies, witness one and two, several people in the area and with witness number four, the man with a white cap. From there on, what can you tell us more about that day? A Well, so spoke to my colleagues. There were - there were a lot of rebels. No, I mean - no, there were - don't really remember whether any rebels at the - no, I think when we arrived there, there were not many rebels, if any. I don't really remember that. But then after we spoke to those people then we see … (indistinct) … came, we see … (indistinct) … arrived.
Q630. A
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they were accompanied by a lot of rebels and they were really harsh. Colleagues of mine were doing live here, like, so that the crash site could be seen behind their back and - and their vehicle was parked here so the rebels are, like, move this vehicle and I had to jump into the vehicle, find the keys, etcetera, so it was a little bit stressful. So they arrived through this road. There were - - -
AFP19112: Q631. Sorry, just for the audio you're referring back to attachment G and indicating the main road heading north. Well, I'm not sure whether it's heading north. It's, like - I think it's
Q632. A
North east? Let me see. Is it - is it - - -
Q633. A
That's the road there. That's the same road, right? Yeah. There's - - -
NPN17183: Q634. That must be the road. Yeah. A North, north east, yeah.
Q635.
And then you have here Grabovo.
AFP19112: Q636. A Grabovo. Yeah, here Grabovo and somewhere there is Snezhnoye and -
Q637.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, they came through this main road, parked here. They were accompanied by the rebels who were guarding them but also sometimes telling them, like, don't go there or, like, your time is - your time has finished, let's go, so like this. Yeah, we spend some time filming how they move around. One of them commented to the press and then we jumped to the car because they said that here back - our back over here. Yeah, close to the spot where we first - -
Q638. A Where you saw the body? Yeah, where we first stopped. There will be another press - brief - press statement or something.
Q639. Yes.

definitely there was no one here. I was quite frightened and I clearly remember this one, there was no one here, I was, like, oh, that's very good. We can ask our questions and can operate more or less freely, So, yeah, we also went - -
NPN17183:
Q657. Do you - when you are speaking to people do you see them becoming nervous when there are rebel - rebel-like people in the - nearby?
A You mean overall?
Q658. Overall, yeah.
A Overall, this - I can't say they - they become nervous but they sort of feel more responsibility, you know.
Q659. And the things - what they say?
A Yeah, yeah, yeah. They - they - when they see rebels they - they sort of start to - they - - they know that they are - they might be responsible for their words, yeah, that …(indistinct)… .And, yeah, when there are no rebels there I would say they're probably more relaxed. Maybe it's just the fact that these people are armed because all people I spoke to, they are, you know, civilians and they are not even city people. They are - they're used to their calmer and, ah, to this slow life in the village so, you know, for them - they're not even, like, people who used to live in the cities and, of course, for them all this is such a disturbance. It's obvious, you know, from - from the way they behave.
AFP19112:
Q660. As a journalist, have you been to many war-torn areas?
A No. No, that was my first, you know - -
Q661. It's your first - - -
A - proper - well, I mean, I - I've been to Crimea, to - to …(indistinct)… in Kiev, to some tense areas but never to conflict zones.
Q662. So have you ever done any military training at all?
A We've done - no, no, not - not military, we've done - there is hostile environment course - -
Q663. Yes.
A - -- by BBC, I did this one and I did also the similar thing when I work for Russian TV, their similar thing.
Q664. Okay. So are you able to identify different types of weapons at all?
A A little bit. I mean, not perfectly but a little bit, yeah.
Q665. So can you describe the weapons that would be carried by the rebels on this day?
A Those who were with OSC, they had Kalashnikovs.
Q666. Yeah. Do you know what type?
A  I - oh, I think it was seventy-four but I'm not sure and also some had a case, oh, the small ones and the thing I noticed was that some of the Kalashnikovs were, how they say, like, they had additional details on them, you know, like, made for - -
Q667. Extra fittings and - - -
А Yeah, yeah, like, for - for the shoulder and the - don't know English word for it - the - -
Q668. Sights?
A Yeah.
Q669. Yeah.
А And also they had good knee pads, the one - the really good ones.
Q670. Okay,
А Yeah.
AFP19112: Do you want to move on from there or?
NPN17183: Okay.
AFP19112: Yeah.
NPN17183:
Q671. Okay. Well, let's go on for the day. Where are we now, about - and the time being?
A Ah, well, it was maybe two pm or something.
Q672. Two pm?
A There was …(indistinct)… or went around this …(indistinct)… to record some - my - my - my words, my piece to camera. Yeah, came back, recorded those guys. I recorded these …(indistinct)… and, yeah, this ring thing and then we left for Torez. I think it was three pm already while we reached Torez. In Torez we spoke to just random people on the street but none of them have seen BUK or something like this, none of them could help us.
AFP19112:
Q673. Did you stop on the way to Torez?
А What for?

AFP19112:
Q692. Torez?
А Torez, Snezhnoye …(indistinct)… I think it's - it's, um - -
NPN17183:
Q693. See …(indistinct)… here.
А It's - it's - -
Q694. I think - - -
А It's gone.
Q695. No, I don't think so. … (indistinct)…
A It's - it's - it's …(indistinct)…
AFP19112:
Q696. Here it is here.
NPN17183:
Q697. Snezhnoye.
AFP19112:
Q698. Here it is.
А …(indistinct)… I think it's there …(indistinct)…
NPN17183:
Q699. It's not north from Grabovo.
А Yeah, so and it - it - -
Q700. I don't think so. Or - or - -
A I think that - -
AFP19112:
Q701. There's Torez there.
NPN17183:Yes.
AFP19112: Donetsk, Torez, Luhansk.
NPN17183: Snezhnoye. …(indistinct)…
AFP19112: Should be in that area. But it's called something different on this map. NPN17183: Called Snezhnoye.
AFP19112: Something slightly different.
NPN17183: Isn't this Snezhnoye? … (Indistinct) …
NPN17183: I think it was here … (indistinct) … NPN17201: Yeah, here, this is … (indistinct) …
NPN17183: But it's difficult to see it.
NPN17201:
Q702. Yeah, this one.
А Where? Is this one.
NPN17183:
Q703. No, there's … (indistinct) …
A … (indistinct) … It's … (indistinct) …
Q704. …(indistinct)…
А Ah.
AFP19112:
Q705. Put a circle around it, make it easier for you.
A This one.
Q706. Yeah.
NPN17183:
Q707. I think it's written here or here. Snezhnoye.
А Not really sure though. …(indistinct)…
Q708. I can tell you, this - this is Snezhnoye.
A Okay. Snezhnoye and where is Torez then?
Q709. Now, in here.
А …(indistinct)… So there is a bigger map, right?
AFP19112: Can we -
NPN17183:
Q710. Sorry.
А That's fine.

A Yes, this one … (indistinct)…
Q730. Where you are looking for the markers in the terrain?
А Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there were - there is - there is my piece to camera when I stay and you can see this hill on my, like, behind my left shoulder. And then we zoom in there is exactly the same picture and then, ah
AFP19112:
Q731. That's when you refer to the poplars?
A Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly the same picture. And then we just went there to this exactly place which we could see on the - on the photo.
NPN17183:
Q732. Okay. You're not sure - you're not able to point it out on this map, I think, …(indistinct)… - -
A No, I'll try, I'll try. Mm, so it's Grabovo. So Torez is - is supposedly somewhere here, right?
Q733. I think here.
А Yeah. So this is actually …(indistinct)…
Q734. Yeah, …(indistinct)… I think I remember you were referring to a certain place, Saur-Mogila.
AFP19112: Yeah.
NPN17183:
Q735. Is that correct?
А Saur-Mogila could be seen here. Saur-Mogila could be seen behind my back, ah - -
AFP19112:
Q736. I think in your notes you sald you went to the outskirts of Torez - -
A Yeah.
Q737. Snezhnoye was about five kilometres away and you could see three poplar trees and a group of trees in the vicinity of Saur-Mogila memorial, near the coal mine.
А Yeah. So I mean, I know, the - we are now speaking about two different spots.
Q738. Okay.
A One of them is a spot on which we recorded, first, these two camera where you can see that trees in - far away but exactly corresponds to the, you know, so that we can recognise that the terrain is similar to the one which was - so, first, you see from far away, exactly as on the photo. And then we came to those trees …(indistinct)… --
NPN17183:
Q739. Yes.
А - - so we found those - those between those trees, ah, to those - --
AFP19112:
Q740. Can you just point to which trees you're referring to on there?
A We are referring to these three trees.
Q741. The three - and that's the three poplars?
A Yeah.
Q742. Okay.
А And then in some distance there was these particular group of trees you could …(indistinct)…
Q743. Just for the purpose of the videotape, you've indicated on attachment A the three single trees on the horizon on the left-hand side of the photograph?
А Yeah.
Q744. Yeah?
А Yeah, yeah.
Q745. Right.
А And then, yeah, on the right
Q746. Then the group of trees to the right of the photograph?
A Yeah. So on - and so we managed to come, like, here, I think because those - I mean, this tree was very, very visible and very close. So, yeah.
Q747. Okay.
A Because we sort of tried to find any explanation for the smoke or something because we thought maybe the smoke, you know, was coming exactly from this spot or something because by that moment there were - there were no reports by …(indistinct)… or something, it appeared maybe … (indistinct)… or something. So we thought, maybe, you know, if we come to very - to that very place we'll find the - the source of that smoke or something.
Q748. Sorry, can I just confirm that we haven't jumped ahead, we're still at - you've arrived at Torez around about three o'clock and this is where you've spoken to those three or four people in this area here, too?

A It was, ah, at that moment it - it was not, um - -
Q768. I mean, is it similar to the smoke in this plume here on the photograph? Or is it small like a cigarette smoke?
A No, not - not like a cigarette but not as much as this one. But, then, I mean, sometimes those mines produce more smoke, sometimes less smoke and, I mean, in the distance we could see mines producing more sufficient amount of smoke.
Q769. And what colour smoke was it?
A Well, it was light. I mean, it wasn't dark, it was light so - whitish. Can't say exactly white but whitish.
NPN17183
Q770. And what makes - why does that come out of those mines, do you know that?
А Ah, yeah, local - our driver, who is a local, he sald, ah - and, I mean, where do I know that from, just from my human experience, I've seen before when we came to Donetsk, when, like, in April and March there were no …(indistinct)…
Q771. Yeah.
А I saw a coal mine and sometimes you could see smoke out of there. I mean, I never studied the - the - the reason of that smoke.
Q772. Okay.
А Some production process probably. So, yeah, now, we thought, mm, this means that, you know, this smoke on the photo, I mean, we're not … (indistinct) … There is - there are two things which may produce smoke, like, if you - if you see them. So there is a coal mine, it can produce smoke. And on Saur-Mogila there are constant fightings, there are different types of weapons, explosives, etcetera, everything. So smoke could - could have come from there so we thought, yeah, we were quite satisfied with what - what we found at that very spot, you know, because it already was some additional value, it was the thing which no one reported at the moment, no one sort of did the same, so we were quite satisfied and it was already becoming dark by the moment we fulfilled all that. Yeah, ah, went back home.
AFP19112:
Q773. Did you take many photos from around that site or - or videos?
А Yes, there is a video you can see from the - in - in the report.
Q774. All right. Good.
А It was there - we first showed these group of trees and then we showed that three trees and then there was a close-up of the coal mine which was behind my, ah, left shoulder …(indistinct)… and I also pointed to Saur-Mogila which was behind my right shoulder.
Q775. I've seen those footage reports but do you have any other footage as well from that area …(indistinct)…
А Maybe a little bit, yeah, a little bit -
Q776. Looking - looking at the ground perhaps or?
A There was nothing in particular - -
Q777. Nothing on the ground?
А - on the ground. No, no, we - we looked at the ground, nothing
really interesting so - - -
NPN17183:
Q778. Do we know the name of that mine?
А No.
Q779. Okay.
А No, no. Because, yeah, also, ah, to film on a mine you have to get special permission and, ah, and generally we try to keep very low profile because we're BBC and sometimes we're not welcome by - by
rebels so - which we didn't ask anyone, you know, filming, tried to do everything as quickly as we can.
Q780. Okay. Can you recall what the weather circumstances were at the moment you were there?
А I don't remember, you know, any weather detail but the weather was good, it was very sunny. I remember that a colleague of mine put, ah, something to cover her head, it was very hot. The sky was blue. The sky was - I think it was - it was blue and the - the vision - visibility was very good.
Q781. Temperature?
А Oh, it was hot, it was hot. I don't know.
Q782. … (indistinct)…
А Twenty-five, thirty.
Q783. And it's, what, you were the same crew or?
А Yeah, yeah, it's all the same people, yeah, yeah. Yeah - yes, well, I think also on the - in the report we filmed this - this small bit of smoke coming from the coal mine.
AFP19112: Oh, good.