А   Green bags?
Q1378. Smaller bags?
A There were smaller bags but I think, again, they were black but the - the sun was very bright - you know, and I think it was against the sun so, maybe, this - there was different, ah, colour but I couldn't distinguish it because of the sun.
Q1379.  And you said before you saw a lot of personal effects, you know, bags, cases and so on - did you see many bags by way of computer-type bags or camera bags?
А   There was some.
Q1380. And were they open or empty or full?
A  Some were open. I remember seeing one laptop, like, smashed - partially smashed. Many bags were open, most of the bags were open I would say, yeah. And I also remember that Fergal KEANE's team they were - they had a good contact with one of the rebels and they were given, ah, they were given, ah, USB card on which rebels recorded the first minutes after that crash when they arrived, this particular team of rebels, they arrive on the scene and they were - they just recorded their deeds. They - they arrived there - -
Q1381. Recorded their what, sorry?
A Their deeds, their actions.
Q1382. Okay, Yeah.
A So they were - and I remember looking through that footage, I - I, I deleted it, unfortunately - -
Q1383. You did what, sorry?
A I deleted it from - from my laptop - so I don't have it any more. They were looking at the … (indistinct)… yeah, so they came there and their commander gave them an order to - he said, 'Check all the bags, search for information. You need to get USB cards, flash cards, flash drives, computers, photo cameras, anything, we need information." That's what he sald. And they were, you know, I remember seeing they were, like, taking bags and taking everything out of them, searching for - they were fulfilling his - his orders.
Q1384. So the member of Fergal KEANE's team that was provided with the USB from one of the rebels, did the rebel record what happened - -
А   Yeah, yeah.
Q1385. - on that USB?
А    Yeah, yeah. No, well, yeah, on on camera or something
…(indistinct)… yes, yes.
Q1386. Yeah. And do you recall the name of the person within Fergal KEANE's team that's received that USB?
А Well, that - that was his team, I mean, Fergal told me that and -
Q1387. Okay. But you don't know who it was within his team?
A I think it was his cameraman, of course, which is logical.
Q1388. And do you know where that USB is now?
А  I - we copled it to their laptops, et cetera.
Q1389. Okay.
A No, no, I don't - don't know.
Q1390. So, obviously, BBC would be in possession of that USB, I guess?
A I don't know whether they kept it or - - -
Q1391. Fergal - Fergal KEANE works for BBC?
A   Yeah, he does. I don't know what - what they did to it, to be honest.
AFP19112: We do an inquiry through BBC for that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE OFFICER:
Uh-huh.
IVSHINA: I think he was with Will VERNON, producer. Think so but I might be mistaken. Yeah. Well, better ask Fergal because I remember - I remember possessing this recording, then I just copied it to my laptop but then at some - at some point I deleted it, um, didn't seem, you know, really, really valuable to me at that time. But I remember, yeah, so they - they were - and on that recording they weren't stealing or something, they - it - it seemed that they, you know, just searched for information even though I don't know what for but, you know, the search for information was going around. It was quite, quite good quality recording, I would say.
Q1392. Okay. When you were at the crash site did you see any green metal objects? Which appeared to be foreign to the site?
A I - I see which sort of look not like a part of the aircraft, right?
Q1393. Possibly. Yeah.
А  No.

А   Well, yeah, I mean, they were digging a lot. I remember that when we were leaving we noticed that they were digging a lot of special trenches. Big ones also for for big vehicles, not only for …(indistinct)… those soldiers.
Q1414. So where were those trenches?
A  Near Donetsk. Near Donetsk and also in direction to Sloviansk where …(indistinct)… the rebel country or the area ends so at that place. And Ukrainians were building quite I remember near …(indistinct)… et cetera, they were also building, um, impressive fortifications.
Q1415.  Okay, Just while we collect our ideas together, can I just show you this document? Can you just have a look at this, just take your time, go through. This is - sorry, attachment D, which I showed you before and it's just the pictures of badges, flags and logos that you may or may not have seen in your time in the Ukraine. If you can just go through each page and if you identify any badge that you recognise from your deployment can you write down who you believe it belongs to and where you saw that if - if you can recall?
А   Does - should - I mean, should that …(indistinct)… refer only to that deployment or to any deployment?
Q1416. To any deployment, that's fine. What we're trying to do is just to firm up where we believe these units may or may not have been at the time?
A Okay.
Q1417. And then if you could just initial each of those entries that you make. So, yeah, as you did before, just initials.
А  I see.
Q1418. Thank you.
А   So, well, see, I - I've seen these near Korovka. So should I write - - Korovka' - -
Q1419. Yes, please, that would be great.
А   And then …(indistinct)…
NPN17183; If you …(indistinct)…
AFP19112: As much information as you're happy to put down.
IVSHINA: I remember this one because it was remarkable, yeah. Korovka it was.
NPN17183:
Q1420. And why was it remarkable?
А  Well, we just nearly ran into huge trouble (laughs).
AFP19112:
Q1421. What sort of trouble was that?
A   As usual. Ah, was it the twentieth - twentieth - twenty-third - no. No, no, I remember the checkpoint was attacked by - it was a fight for Korovka between those guys and - and Donbas Battalion of Ukrainian army.
NPN17183:
Q1422. They were fighting each other?
А   Well, yeah - I - I - it was - and I think, um, it's hard to understand who attacked who when it was their checkpoint and then Donbas Battalion was passing by or attacking or something so there was a fight. So, yeah, I have seen these many times. What should I do, just?
Q1423. So many times?
NPN17201: Yeah, many times.
NPN17183:
Q1424. …(indistinct)… in all of the periods you have seen them?
A From May on. Donetsk. Yeah, this is …(indistinct)…
(Background conversation)
IVSHINA: What if I didn't see it?
AFP19112: If you didn't see it, leave it -
IVSHINA: Leave it, okay.
…(indistinct)…
NPN17183: No, we'll take a break soon.
AFP19112: Yeah.
Q1425. You realise this is a quiz.
А   (Laughs). Oh, yeah, I've seen this in a - you know there is a gift shop in - in Donetsk - seat of administration (laughs).
NPN17183: Okay.
AFP19112: …(indistinct)… pull that down.
IVSHINA: Ah, wait. There - this - I thought they're the same. Okay, For me they are the same. Well, I mean, I - I wrote here ribbon only but I actually seen both of them. Combination of it. I just - that particular question, it was ribbon only. Yeah. Well, definitely seen this but, no, don't remember there.

Q1441. Pictures of persons - -
… (Indistinct talking) …
NPN17201:…(indistinct)… have a break.
NPN17183:
Q1442. And then wait for it and …(indistinct)… yeah? All right. I've got it now.
А  (Laughs).
Q1443. - fifteen fifty-eight and we are suspending, now, the interview for a ---
ROI SUSPENDED AT THREE FIFTY-EIGHT PM
ROI RESUMED AT FOUR FORTY-SIX PM
NPN17183: All right. It now is sixteen forty-six and we are continuing our interview with Olga IVSHINA. Do you have any questions further on?
AFP19112: Are you going to do the ---
NPN17183: Otherwise
AFP19112: - - - closing statements?
NPN17183: Yeah.
AFP19112: Okay. I'll leave that to you. I have no further questions. Thank you.
NPN17183:
Q1444. Okay. Is there anything further you wish to say in relation to this matter? What comes up at your mind just - and what we didn't ask? And whether you might be thinking that's useful or necessary that we need to know that?
A Well, maybe, I just want to - maybe just need to mention that while we were there we quite often heard the - the sound of what we believe were fighter jets in the sky so -
Q1445. Several fighter jets, yeah - -
A Yeah.
Q1446. you've heard in that period of time, yeah, yeah -
А  Yeah, yeah …(indistinct)…
Q1447. Also, in the beginning, when you were there only at the time you were there when also the MH seventeen was downed?
А Well, I mean, I haven't been there when the MH seventeen was downed but - -
Q1448. No, but - - -
A  - - I think on Monday, on Tuesday, like, from that on.
Q1449. Yeah. Then you have …(indistinct)… yourself …(indistinct)…
A Yeah, yeah.
Q1450. - -- fighter jets?
A Fighter jets, yeah.
Q1451. And other planes, have you seen other - other - -
A No, maybe, like, a small dot, you know - -
Q1452. Yeah. In the sky - -
А   On the - on the …(indistinct)… yeah, yeah, but -
Q1453. Okay,
А  - - this particular sound and the (verbally demonstrates) you can
hear, yeah.
Q1454. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's good for you to say. Have you - the answers you have given us during this interview, you have been - done that on your own free will?
A Yes.
Q1455. Yes. No pressure on it from our sides - - -
A No, no.
Q1456. Okay, Has there been any threat, promise or inducements been held out to you to provide us the answers you have given to us?
А No
Q1457. Okay. Thank you. Well, for now, it's sixteen forty-nine and at this time we will end the official interview. Thank you very much for your time and we will end our - this interview … (indistinct)…
А  …(indistinct)…

ROI CONCLUDED AT FOUR FORTY-NINE PM